Alternative Platform

[tekdiveraz]

Please get onyx over to some other platform. ANYTHING, other than Microsoft Windows. Mac OSX is most preferred, however a variant of linux would be fine too. I know it has been discussed before. Onyx and Jeppesen Flightstar are the only two reasons why I have bootcamp and XP on my mac pro's. Yuck, I wish I could dump XP, it drags down how onyx works. It is a bloated cow. I have heard people say that vista is worse, however is anyone running onyx productionhouse 7.1 in a production environment, running vista?

[Scott]

I'll ask again, but here's what I do know.

Engineers have flavors of Linux and OSX there and there has been some research done into going cross platform, however the demand has been so low that it hasn't been pursued much to this point.

I will make mention of it again because if they end up doing a huge code overhaul for v8.0 then it may be easier to make it cross platform. Right now the code is a little dated and not built with a ton of room for adding new features and major code changes, which is why in my opinion they have built addon tools rather than just updating features already there.

Like I said...I'll mention your request to them again.

[tekdiveraz]

Most computer users and company users do not test their products, they assume that if they buy them they must work for their application. Also consider that many users have taken onyx's recommendation and dedicated a machine for running their rip. Which means that those of us who have done this have no problem switching the OS. We need it to be more reliable than it is at this point. In my humble opinion the OS is what is holding the product back, this should be the determining factor, not the fear that the users will not accept an os change. I believe that the majority of users who use it in a production environment are quite capable of buying whatever machine or os that best suits Onyx.

[palnudb]

I would have to agree.
I only bought a PC to run Onyx, and I still run it on Windows 2000 Server.
I would be much happier if it was on OSX, because macs are much easier to troubleshoot than Windows.

[RogerEle]

We're fine running our print server on a PC. That's all it does: spits data out the ethernet port. We don't even run a web browser on that machine, let alone anything else.

I can not imagine wasting a precious Mac on a print server that just churns pixels and spews them out an ethernet port.

I've been using Onyx _forever_ and I always harped on shops that used their print server as a graphic design workstation as well. It's not worth the headaches.

[bellevuefineart]

OMG I have to say YES, put it on Linux. I have a dedicated PC as my RIP server. Right now it's running XP. I want to upgrade to a faster PC with more RAM, but I know that I would get locked into Vista, which is just not an option. Quite frankly Windows 7 won't be an option either. Berkley Unix (BSD) or Linux would be fine. Windows had really become limiting in its ability to host robust applications like this, to mention nothing of the color management nightmares in Windows. If Onyx 8 were available for Linux, I would certainly move that one PC to Linux. I would consider a MAC, but that's an expensive option for a dedicated RIP server.

[jonkovach]

I would have to agree with Dada. I am in a production environment, and I have always bought PCs to dedicate to Onyx - there is no other option, in my opinion. The idea of running Onyx with other software on the same computer is ridiculous. It's too much.

I run huge files - sometimes up to 1GB per file - and I have no problem RIPping them and printing them. Why would I want to spend the extra money on a Mac, just to RIP and print the files?

Believe it or not, I am running Vista 64 bit. I have very few problems, NONE of which are due to the operating system. I am not a Windows guy - I have it at home, but I love my Mac at work. But I have to admit, the PC runs fine - you beef it up with RAM and processor speed, and you'll be fine.

And WHY are Macs easier to troubleshoot? If you know what you're doing, the PCs work fine. You set them up, install Onyx, and you're off and running. What else is there? It's all over the network, so there aren't even printer drives to screw around with anymore.

[nate]

(07-28-2009 12:22 PM)jonkovach Wrote:  I would have to agree with Dada. I am in a production environment, and I have always bought PCs to dedicate to Onyx - there is no other option, in my opinion. The idea of running Onyx with other software on the same computer is ridiculous. It's too much.

I run huge files - sometimes up to 1GB per file - and I have no problem RIPping them and printing them. Why would I want to spend the extra money on a Mac, just to RIP and print the files?

Believe it or not, I am running Vista 64 bit. I have very few problems, NONE of which are due to the operating system. I am not a Windows guy - I have it at home, but I love my Mac at work. But I have to admit, the PC runs fine - you beef it up with RAM and processor speed, and you'll be fine.

And WHY are Macs easier to troubleshoot? If you know what you're doing, the PCs work fine. You set them up, install Onyx, and you're off and running. What else is there? It's all over the network, so there aren't even printer drives to screw around with anymore.

I agree completely. Run Onyx on Windows XP 64 if you want to have more RAM-- It works great as is familiar to pretty much anyone who's used a computer in the last fifteen years. No need to run up to Vista to get 64bit/more RAM.

We ran a demo version of Caldera RIP which must use either Linux or Mac. No Windows available. It's an amazing program--- Really worth the time and money for it. It addresses a lot of the things people are wishing for here even. I can't say enough good about it.

However, being in the Linux environment did not work well with everyone here at our shop that would need to run with it. Linux is just different enough from Windows that for the average guy to just get going might take a while.

And, as mentioned, I didn't want to spring for a Mac-- too expensive just to be a data processor.

Ultimately we decided to stick with Onyx because of the familiar Windows. We built a new machine, loaded Windows XP 64, and went to work.

[Scott]

(10-10-2009 09:23 AM)nate Wrote:  We ran a demo version of Caldera RIP which must use either Linux or Mac. No Windows available. It's an amazing program--- Really worth the time and money for it. It addresses a lot of the things people are wishing for here even. I can't say enough good about it.

I visited the Caldera booth at this last ISA show and went through a demo and was amazed. I had never seen Caldera before, and being an Onyx fanboy (self admitted) I never took the time. It looked like an incredible product, and there were lots of things that I really wished were available in Onyx.

I immediately went to the Onyx booth to share with them my thoughts about it, and I think they appreciated them. I know they plan to really step up their product with v8, and I'm anxious to see/hear more about it as things get closer, they're very tight lipped about it all right now.

[Guillaume]

Hello everybody

Interesting thread. I'm working for Caldera so I thought I could add my 2 cents.

In another recent thread, I've read the following contribution, on the exact same subject: "The amount of work, possible issues and change is beyond imagination". There is almost nothing more to add. This is exactly what we answer to our customers when they ask if we could go to Windows. It's just impossible. I think it's even more impossible in the other direction, Windows to Linux, because a lot of printers manufacturers are providing a Windows SDK, sometimes available also for Mac, but rarely for Linux. So we have to developp everything from scratch, and that would undoubtly be an additional work for Windows programmers.

But even without speaking of drivers SDK, there are a lot of things that are totally different: GUI, low-level stuff like USB and firewire, integration to the system services, all that would be a total nightmare. It's not only that you have to find people knowing both systems, but also these guys should have a little bit of knowledge in printing. That's hard to find.

As many people said, when you are using a Windows RIP, the safe way is just not installing anything else, and using it only for printing, that's all. Obviously on Linux we don't have this problem, since there are not so many interesting applications available (or better said, they are no so well known). Additionally, Caldera somehow enforces this policy by various ways, from building a custom (simplified) Linux installation to disabling automatic updates. I wouldn't like to give good ideas to my competitors, but maybe there's something similar to do on Windows... That beeing said, I'm running an Onyx on my Windows since years, without too much problems, and with hundreds of other pograms installed and used everyday. But of course, it's not a production installation either.

Thanks Marcos for your kind words about Caldera, its nice to hear. I'm also anxious to see what the Onyx team is preparing. Unfortunately for them, it seems we are going to win the race for V8!

Guillaume

[MarcoRoos]

(11-05-2009 03:42 PM)Guillaume Wrote:  Hello everybody

Interesting thread. I'm working for Caldera so I thought I could add my 2 cents.

In another recent thread, I've read the following contribution, on the exact same subject: "The amount of work, possible issues and change is beyond imagination". There is almost nothing more to add. This is exactly what we answer to our customers when they ask if we could go to Windows. It's just impossible. I think it's even more impossible in the other direction, Windows to Linux, because a lot of printers manufacturers are providing a Windows SDK, sometimes available also for Mac, but rarely for Linux. So we have to developp everything from scratch, and that would undoubtly be an additional work for Windows programmers.

But even without speaking of drivers SDK, there are a lot of things that are totally different: GUI, low-level stuff like USB and firewire, integration to the system services, all that would be a total nightmare. It's not only that you have to find people knowing both systems, but also these guys should have a little bit of knowledge in printing. That's hard to find.

As many people said, when you are using a Windows RIP, the safe way is just not installing anything else, and using it only for printing, that's all. Obviously on Linux we don't have this problem, since there are not so many interesting applications available (or better said, they are no so well known). Additionally, Caldera somehow enforces this policy by various ways, from building a custom (simplified) Linux installation to disabling automatic updates. I wouldn't like to give good ideas to my competitors, but maybe there's something similar to do on Windows... That beeing said, I'm running an Onyx on my Windows since years, without too much problems, and with hundreds of other pograms installed and used everyday. But of course, it's not a production installation either.

Thanks Marcos for your kind words about Caldera, its nice to hear. I'm also anxious to see what the Onyx team is preparing. Unfortunately for them, it seems we are going to win the race for V8!

Guillaume

Hi Guillaume!

You're welcome! ;-) We should all avoid to have those Mac vs Windows fights or Windows vs Linux fights on a site like this! Everything you say is exactly what I mean. And it is true that Caldera creates a high quality product on a stable platform. As you said: ONYX is running stable on Windows if you configure it correctly, but that is with almost any Windows application that uses a lot of resources.

My experience is that whatever RIP people are using, they all get used to a certain interface, ease of use (or what they call ease of use) and because they're all very experienced with that particular product that all know exactly what are the difficulties and issues with it. A RIP (or what we call a RIP ;-)) is a solution that drives companies but also is the workflow that shaped the company and where people are used to. I think comparing RIPs and discussing them is useless: you buy them from a reseller that sells you a printer, support, supplies and gives you advice. As long as they help you running your business, you are going to be a happy 'whatever-RIP-user'.

It is time for the next gen workflow solution, that really helps people to speed up their company and make them more efficient. What do you think? ;-)

Congratulation with your victory over version 8! ;-) Please tell me that we need to re-profile everything! :-D

Thanks again for jumping in!

Marco

[Guillaume]

Hi Marco,

Sorry for this rather late answer, but it's not like I was a regular user of this forum either

I think you exagerate a little bit saying that "comparing RIPs and discussing them is useless". After all, many resellers now gives you the choice between 2 or 3 rips (at least in Europe, I don't know in the US). And anyway you do not have absolutely to buy the rip and the printer from the same place. But I understand what you mean. An LFP Rip is a so complex software, with so many features, that the important thing is not to have the better one, if there is a better one, but to know well how yours works.

As for the "next gen workflow solution", well I may surprise you, but I am not absolutely certain it is the right time. I think the right time for a company to expand its activities beyond its core product is when this core product works perfectly, and meets all the customer needs. Is that the case with RIPs today? I think not.

Concerning V8, it's now released, and no, you don't need to reprofile anything. But since you give me the chance to make a little bit of advertising, I will take it and tell you that you *can* reprofile everything if you want, with our very new profiling engine, i1Prism from XRite. Give it a try! .)

Guillaume

[mrwilson41]

I found this site [OS Market Share] and am not surprised to see that Windows take up more than 90% of the market. I can see if Onyx is looking to expand their base, going to another platform may help. Onyx developing a version for Mac OSX appears to be a logical step from a business standpoint.

I have seen many of our customers not purchasing custom computers, but acquiring stock versions off the shelf of electronics stores. Most of these computers are running Windows 7, 64-bit. I think Onyx would be better to improve their ripping performance by making a true 64-bit application instead of making it compatible on Mac OSX or Linux, but that is just my humble opinion.

[MarcoRoos]

(05-04-2010 05:24 AM)mrwilson41 Wrote:  I found this site [OS Market Share] and am not surprised to see that Windows take up more than 90% of the market. I can see if Onyx is looking to expand their base, going to another platform may help. Onyx developing a version for Mac OSX appears to be a logical step from a business standpoint.

I have seen many of our customers not purchasing custom computers, but acquiring stock versions off the shelf of electronics stores. Most of these computers are running Windows 7, 64-bit. I think Onyx would be better to improve their ripping performance by making a true 64-bit application instead of making it compatible on Mac OSX or Linux, but that is just my humble opinion.

I completely agree with you! This is nearby now with version X10 with 64-bit support....

Regards,
Marco

[Gunther]

Dear Marco !
My X10.0.0.69 is not supporting 64bit !!!!

Its still running emulated in 32 bit :-(((((((((((